Ness & Baby J Discuss Second Collaborative Album The Price of Bread (The Witzard Interview)

NE$$ (top) and Baby J (bottom) - SOURCE: Ness

So, at least 10+ years ago now, our often verbose founder/editor-in-chief Matt “The Witzard” Horowitz attended a Das Racist/Greedhead concert and label showcase held at Union Transfer in Philly. The now-defunct label imprint of Himanshu “Heems” K. Suri (Who now runs Veena Sounds) organized a showcase that featured performances from label signees LE1F, Lakutis, Weekend Money, and, of course, Das Racist, who ended up disbanding not too long after. It may or may not have also boasted appearances from the ever-illusive Despot, Mr. Muthaf**kin’ eXquire, Fat Tony, and/or Mayhem Lauren. Aside from Das Racist, who were expectedly great, super-lax, and extremely buzzworthy, Weekend Money instantly captivated both The Witzard and his fellow attendees. Emcee NE$$ and DJ/producer Baghdaddy played songs from their then-still unreleased debut album, Naked City. Its Miami Drum “n” Bass meets Golden Age Hip-Hop-fusing sound tipped the tender ears of our Witzard, who very much enjoyed the album upon its eventual January 2013 wide release. The Witzard connected with and kept in touch with NE$$ online over the years that have since passed. They would often chat and The Witzard would continually pester NE$$ about when Weekend Money would be dropping new music, touring again, etc. NE$$ eventually (and very kindly) pointed The Witzard in the direction of his new project, Ness x Baby J , and his own proper label imprint, TheSystemDontWork Records/Network. The Witzard first interviewed NE$$ & Baby J for The Find Mag in 2020 coinciding with the release of their first collaborative effort, 21st Century Blues. As a matter of fact we spoke with Ness & Baby J again just this past spring aligning with the release of their second album, The Price of Bread, which was released on TheSystemDontWork back in October. It’s now available to listen to across your digital streaming platform of choice. The interview below was conducted via email with Ness & Baby J and has bene lightly edited for general clarity.

I. How did The Price of Bread come about and how does it differ from its predecessor, 21st Century Blues (2020)?

NE$$: The creative process for The Price of Bread started not too long after 21st Century Blues [2CB] was completed. There were a few beats that Baby J sent as we were ending the last project that I sat with for a few months, like the beat to “Stripper Money” and some that predated 21st Century Blues, like “Hustler’s Remorse,” the first song I actually worked on for this album. That one, specifically, was a beat [Baby] J sent me a year before 2CB called “Divorce” that I sat with for a while that I always loved for its raw, minimal melancholy kinda sad energy, but could never come up with words for. When I was looking for beats to start this new album, I came back to it because I was I going [through] sh!t at the time that matched that energy. Emotionally, it set the tone for the project and ended up being the last song on the final tracklist for the album, which was fitting as a closer for the project; some full-circle “the beginning became the end” type sh!t. In real time, I was just going [through] a lot of personal things that ended up coloring the project. My older brother went into a coma during the end of 21st Century Blues and ended up transitioning a year later along with other personal sh!t that kinda derailed my artistic process for a bit, but, also, gave me some context for the art and life and in an attempt to use music as therapy, this is what came out. As for the rest of the album, as I was working on songs here and there, I started seeing a recurring theme of money and the personal struggles we go through [trying to] survive out here, personally and as a people. Micro/Macro sh*t. So as the album coalesced I ran with it and doubled down on money-themed titles and ideas for the rest of the project. Once I got the name for the album, it cemented the whole concept album idea.

As for the title for the album, it came from a [conversation] I had with one of my artist friends in Miami LuLu Sanchez at a BBQ at Swampspace, a local Miami art gallery. She casually said the term "the price of bread" in a [conversation] about the current state of inflation in 2021-2022. After doing some research on the meaning of the term, I felt it fit as a perfect title of the concept album I wanted to make, which was about money/Capitalism and our relationship to it as oppressed people. Basically, our lived experience navigating Capitalism from our point of view. We’re asking the question “what is the price of bread?”—with “bread” being slang for money, the question becomes “what is the price of money?” or “what price do we pay to make money?” individually, and collectively, “what is the cost of navigating Capitalism?” for our people in general. The price of bread = the cost of living = our life. We give our lives, our time, our bodies to the system—since slavery ‘til this day. I would say the major differences between 21st Century Blues and The Price of Bread are that this one is emotionally more somber, intimate, personal, and the fact that it’s a concept album. The interludes were a little more fleshed out musically and with more poetry as opposed to found soundbites. Also, there were a lot more guest appearance[/collaborations] on this project by far.

II. How was The Price of Bread recorded (ie: together in the same studio or separately and via email)?

NE$$: We recorded this album like we did the last one, remotely. Baby J crafting beats at his lab in The UK and sending over beats via Google Drive and me working on lyrics and recording at my lab in Miami, then, sending over audio files for him to mix.

III. In addition to and/or aside from yourselves, who else contributed to the making-of and now appears across The Price of Bread?

NE$$: This album was significantly more [collaboration] heavy than the last one. some of the features. Conway The Machine from Griselda [Records] camp, [Revolutionary But Gangsta] (RBG) homie Coach NYM with the crazy verse on “Illegal Business,” Houston homie and long-time Weekend Money collaborator Fat Tony on “Vice Grip,” ANTWON who was on “Murder P*rn” from the last album, Queens, NY emcee Life Life, who is currently recording an album for TheSystemDontWork (TSDW) Records, [and] UK emcees Logic, Rukus, & Blade. UK Soul [singers] Jamie Joseph & Lekky (who are, also, working on albums for TSDW Records,) [and] Miami-based artist and writer Octavia Yearwood sang on one of my [favorite] joints from the album, "Human Capital." We, also, had a series of spoken word pieces at the end of most songs that I wrote, but had other people voice. My wifey, Nicolle Nyariri, Baby J’s sons, Bobby & Eden, [and] my [daughters] Tisa [and] Shannon… I think that’s it.

IV. Who or what were some of your greatest sources of personal inspiration and influence while creating and fine-tuning The Price of Bread?

Baby J: I think we wanted to open a conversation around the struggles people face on a day-to-day [basis just] getting by. So, really the inspiration was just the people around us and seeing their challenges. Musically, Wendy Carlos & Alice Coltrane, I think, made me want to do all the weird soundscape sh!t that you get on “Stick Up Kids” and all [of] the interludes.

NE$$: Yeah, really just real life for the most part. Going [through] real sh!t really drove this album, like most other projects we do, but this one even more so; story-telling using real life experience to inform the art. Also, I was re-reading Frantz Fanon’s The Wretched of The Earth halfway [through] the making of the album, so that definitely bled into the project and watched a lot of random documentaries about Capitalism, the slave trade, the African diaspora, the history of Black life in America, etc. as source material.

Musically, there are some current artists in [the] Underground Hip-Hop [scene] dropping some interesting projects sonically, but narrative-wise might lack some of the sobering truth that I feel I’m one of the few emcees willing to even go there; so, I feel like that's my contribution to the current Hip-Hop landscape. No frills working class/[Lumpenproletariat] Real Rap (but for real for real) without the glamorization or fetishization of street life. [One] last thing about [inspirations] for this album: initially, I was making this album a soundtrack to an art film I got an art grant for in 2021 that I’m currently working on called 3 Words Before You Go Left”—a coming-of-age story about a kid navigating a maze, but I ended up falling back from that idea and letting the music concept be more general. Still though, that initial idea was part of the early direction for the project.

V. What can you tell us about the creation of and concept behind the animated music video for "Stick Up Kids?"

Baby J: It’s guerilla tactics. We didn't have a budget or access to [professional] cameras, etc. so this was a way to tell the story using hand-drawn images. We just did it ourselves and worked it out on the go.

NE$$: The whole 2-D animation thing was [Baby] J’s idea. We wanted to go with some child-like raw, simple animation sh!t, like some vintage Eastern European cartoon type of thing. When he showed me the idea, I was into it, so we ran with it.

VI. What's the story and intended message behind the music video for "Illegal Business?"

NE$$: With “Illegal Business,” I was looking to do a classic New York-style bodega video just to get that feeling and imagery as a backdrop for a song exposing street life for what it is—a trap. I wanted to take it back to that feeling. As members of the RBG collective, both [myself] and the bro, Coach NYM, came up in the New York City Hip-Hop scene in the late 1990’s and 2000’s, so I felt like it would be fitting; neon lights, bodega shots, nighttime, street sh!t, etc. I wasn’t trying to re-invent the wheel with this one, I wanted that familiarity. [Shout-out] to the homie NYM and his brother, Blaze, for adding on with creative direction and Demitri Nicolas from the July [by Demitri] brand for shooting/editing the visual and bringing it to life.

VII. What can you tell us about the album cover image and artwork seen throughout the packaging and release roll-out for The Price of Bread?

Baby J: Like for us, the music is art. It's propaganda. So, we wanted the imagery to be our work in its own right, not just something to promote or sell records. I think the album is about being at the bottom and trying to scrape your way up, so having NE$$’ head as the shape of Africa shows the journey that Black people have been on and are still on fighting against oppression. The image was borrowed from a Patrice Lumumba poster from the 60’s that I saw.

NE$$: It’s back to that micro/macro of it all type thing. Africa, in general, [and] at the same time, a child of Africa individually. I sent [Baby] J some headshots from different angles and sent it his way and he sent back a few drawn out ideas until we got the the Africa/head idea and I loved it. Thought it was powerful [and] subtle, but straight-forward.

VIII. Do you two have any immediate plans to do any shows together in either the US or UK?

NE$$: We’re definitely looking to do some shows to support the project, but we’re still building. I’m doing some small shows in Miami, Philly, and NYC. Also, [myself] and the homie, ANTWON, are working on a group tour for the spring, but [have] no solid dates yet. We’ll post about it once we lock in all the dates.

Baby J: We want to; it's just getting booked. The brand is relatively new and projects haven't really resonated like that yet for us to get international shows, but we plan on doing shows together soon.

IX. How did the "Stripper Money" Remix with Conway The Machine come about and ultimately come to fruition?

NE$$: We were finished with the album and wanted to get one final [collaboration] that we felt would match what we were doing and could bring some like-minded eyes to the project. Baby J asked me who I had [connections] with that I felt would be down to get on the project. I gave him a list of Black Thought, Yasiin Bey, Talib [Kweli], Conway [The Machine], Jay [Electronica], and a couple other artists. We sent some feelers out then ended up going with Conway. Our homegirl, Mo, linked us with Conway to make it happen. It was a process of sending him a few tracks, him picking “Stripper Money,” [and then] us waiting for him to write his verse while he was on tour, then, broke his leg, and recovering, etc. [We] appreciate the homie for getting the verse back to us. I don’t normally [collaborate] with artists that I don't have a super-personal relationship with, but I think it worked out even [though] it did shift our release date waiting for the verse and all the logistics after the fact. Respectfully.

Baby J: We love Conway and all the Griselda [Records] music and we are big fans of what those guys are doing, but if I'm being honest… the reason we got Conway on the track was to help promote the album and make more people aware of it and we felt his name attached to It would help us do that. We paid for the verse and never met him or spoke to him directly, so it wasn't like the other [collaborations] on the album.

X. What's planned next for NE$$ & Baby J?

Baby J: We're trying to get in the rhythm of dropping three or four projects a year. It's just hard juggling the music alongside real life. We got this Bunchy Carter EP [completed that will,] hopefully, [be] out in the next month and, then, the next release after that is Race Record, which is going to explore race and identity, which should be dope.

XI. So, is there any music currently in-the-works and/or planned to drop in 2024 from Weekend Money, NE$$?

NE$$: Yes, yes, and yes. As you know, we have an unreleased [Weekend Money] (W$) project that we’ve had in the stash for yeeeaars that will come out in some capacity. Also, [myself] and Baghdaddy [have] been building the last few months about working on some new joints. To keep it real, every time I talk to Bagh I’m like, “I’m ready to work. When [you] ready?” and he’s always like, “soon.” So, I would say summertime, but no dates yet. I recently ran into Bagh on a trip to Philly and brainstormed on some dope ideas. Looking forward to getting something out in that vein. Stay tuned.

XII. How did you initially hook up with Mark Ronson to create two remixes of "Valerie" featuring Amy Winehouse/Rukus, Precha, Alex Blood & Malik from his critically-acclaimed 2007 album, Version, Baby J?

Baby J: I worked with this radio plugger called Harvey, who promoted the Skinnyman stuff I did and when Sony [Music] wanted a Hip-Hop version of the “Valerie” track, they came to me because he recommended us. There were six or seven remixes commissioned, but we worked the Hell out of ours and made sure all the DJ’s got it, so it ended up being a AA-side with Mark Ronson. When it was eventually released and was in the charts for 10 weeks and, then, we toured with Ronson and, then, when he supported JAY-Z in The UK, we toured with him again as part of that.